The Star Trek Thread!

[iso_55]

9 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

and that's the draw back when you assume the character will be what you know him as, but someone elses vision ends up disappointing you for not being accurate to that image.  

If what I read was accurate, the cumberbatch Khan in ST:ID is from a decade before this Khan

so while I expected more of this Khan

I can sort of see why they went the way they did.  I always knew Khan as an advanced superior to humans, with a hate on the federation for the way he and his people were treated,  and while the way they were treated differed, I think it was just the directors take on how he'd do it

That was Montabaln's actual physique at the time. Not many people know Ricardo suffered a serious back injury years ago & was in tremendous pain. He slowly took up weight lifting to rebuild the strength in his back & I guess worked out lifting weights on a regular basis.

[Logan007]

6 hours ago, iso_55 said:

That was Montabaln's actual physique at the time. Not many people know Ricardo suffered a serious back injury years ago & was in tremendous pain. He slowly took up weight lifting to rebuild the strength in his back & I guess worked out lifting weights on a regular basis.

Huh, I didn't know that.  I always wondered why he was in such good shape for Khan.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

10 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Or Spock & Khan fighting each other a hundred stories above San Francisco while jumping between what looks to be 2 flying barges????

That was a great scene.

[iso_55]

10 hours ago, Logan007 said:

Huh, I didn't know that.  I always wondered why he was in such good shape for Khan.

Yes, he hurt his back in the late 50's or early 60's & was weightlifting to keep the strength in his back built up as it alleviated the pain. Now, he may have trained to get the bigger physique for the second Khan role in the movie, I'm not sure.

[The Unknown Poster]

3 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Yes, he hurt his back in the late 50's or early 60's & was weightlifting to keep the strength in his back built up as it alleviated the pain. Now, he may have trained to get the bigger physique for the second Khan role in the movie, I'm not sure.

There has always been a debate because the costuming for Wrath of Khan had him wearing a chain around his neck consisting of a broken Star Fleet emblem (from an officer's belt) and it would line up perfectly with covering a chest plate.  But the director says the pecs were real.

[The Unknown Poster]

On March 17, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Taynted_Fayth said:

and that's the draw back when you assume the character will be what you know him as, but someone elses vision ends up disappointing you for not being accurate to that image.  

If what I read was accurate, the cumberbatch Khan in ST:ID is from a decade before this Khan

so while I expected more of this Khan

I can sort of see why they went the way they did.  I always knew Khan as an advanced superior to humans, with a hate on the federation for the way he and his people were treated,  and while the way they were treated differed, I think it was just the directors take on how he'd do it

The alt universe didn't "exist" until the moment Nero came back in time, which was at Kirk's birth.  So the Khan in STID should have been the exact same Khan that existed in the original TOS episode Space Seed, since he was sent out on the sleeper ship in the 1990's.  Sure, he was "unfrozen" buy Marcus for a year or two but it doesn't account for the huge change in the character,  So the writers didn't even maintain their own convoluted storyline.

I always felt the better idea, if we can't make "radical" changes would have been for it to be revealed that "Khan" in STID was actually Joachim, Khan's right hand man in WoK.  Play it the same with Joachim pretending to be Khan, complete with the goofy "I am Khan" reveal (that got plenty of laughs in my theatre), but when Spock Prime shows up, he reveals the truth.  In the film, Spock Prime did nothing of note.  Im cool with that since its good to see Nimoy, but he really had no purpose.  If he tells Alt Spock that Khan was our greatest enemy but THAT is not Khan...boom, twist.  Then we assume that revelation gives Alt Spock a method to defeat Joachim.  

Near the end, when they pan over the cryotubes and hover over Cumberbatch's face, instead, it pans again to the familiar face of Montalban's Khan.  Meanwhile, instead of killing Kirk in the radiation chamber, Pike should have been the one trapped (ala his fate in The Menagerie from TOS).  They still chase down Joachim for his magic blood and use it on Pike.  It saves him but does not restore him.  Kirk lists Pike who looks like the one from The Menagerie and its an emotional scene of Kirk questioning the choices he made.  Kirk says he did it for Pike and asks did I not do the right thing, should I have let you die?  And Pike "beeps" yes.  Shaking Kirk and teaching him the morale to the film which was sitting in the big chair and making the big decisions.

Just my two cents...

On March 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, FrostyWinnipeg said:

50yr old Ricardo had more muscles then the Cumber.

Cumber was cast very late.  Benicio Del Toro had the role and dropped out late.  So Cumber began filming before he had a chance to prep.  He gained muscle quickly during filming.  There was a cut scene of him in the shower and he was pretty muscular but the scene was stupid so it was cut.

[iso_55]

14 hours ago, Logan007 said:

Huh, I didn't know that.  I always wondered why he was in such good shape for Khan.

Montabaln broke his back doing a movie scene in 1951 & it bothered him the rest of his life. If I'm not mistaken, I think he fell off a horse.

[johnzo]

My favorite Ricardo Montalban story: at one point he was the designated ethnic actor in LA -- if you needed to cast a role with any hint of melanin, whether it was Brazilian or Pakistani or Portuguese or Turkish or whatever, you probably cast him. 

So he was getting a lot of work and one night he wound up on a late night talk show along with a cowboy actor.  He was talking in that super sexy rich accent of his, and the cowboy actor started teasing him about talking funny.

"When you hear someone speak with an accent," Montalbahn replied, "that means they speak more than one language.  How many languages do you speak?"

Ever since then, if I hear someone speak with an accent, I think of that story.

Edited March 19, 2016 by johnzo

[The Unknown Poster]

Nichelle Nichols (original Uhura) was at a Con this weekend and was asked if she had been contacted to appear in any upcoming Star Trek film or TV projects to which she replied "yes, but I cant talk about it".  Take with a grain of salt but it could be indicative of something for the TV series.  Star Trek Beyond just wrapped re-shoots, so its not for that.  The only thing on deck for filming related to Star Trek is the new series which has begun camera tests.

Although I have had an inkling of "something" being tacked onto Beyond the celebrate the 50th Anniversary of Trek.  From things I've seen and read, I thought they might do a montage of scenes including the originals (from TOS episodes/films).  If true, that might be what Nichols meant, not that she'd be filming anything new, but that she'd be "appearing".

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Well if they doing reshoots of ST:B then they can stick in the 4 remaining actors.

[The Unknown Poster]

15 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Well if they doing reshoots of ST:B then they can stick in the 4 remaining actors.

True but there has been no reports of any of the original actors being seen.  And there are "spy" photos of Chris Pine on set with the director for the re-shoots.  Quinto was seen too and apparently the entire principal cast and some guest stars were back for the re-shoots, which lasted about a week.  There is speculation that some showings of the film resulted in the audience panning the ending...so perhaps there were changes made.

[The Unknown Poster]

New rumors have the new series taking place 50 years after TNG and *not* an anthology series.  I hope not.  Going after TNG just seems silly. 

[Logan007]

They're going to have to be super advanced.  Unless tech just slows down at that point.  But you'll need something to hook people in.

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

They're going to have to be super advanced.  Unless tech just slows down at that point.  But you'll need something to hook people in.

Apparently that aspect of the "rumor" has been withdrawn.  Im not in favour of it.  A lot of Trek fans point to Roddenberry wanting to "always go forward" and take it too literal.  When you get that far into the future, we're talking fantasy.  Trek already has technology way beyond what we will have...I want something grounded more in modern reality.

[iso_55]

Star Trek Enterprise tried to ground the series in modern reality by having a ship that couldn't stand up to more advanced alien ships. That was the part of the series I didn't like not including the different story arcs that never ended but that's for another discussion. Even using transporters was something the crew didn't do as they feared the technology would kill them so transporters were only used when absolutely necessary. The Enterprise had body armour rather than shields. Didn't have the ability to fight another ship so at times they had to flee. No, that series was too close to modern reality. I'd like to see a series half a century after TNG AND Voyager.

[The Unknown Poster]

29 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Star Trek Enterprise tried to ground the series in modern reality by having a ship that couldn't stand up to more advanced alien ships. That was the part of the series I didn't like not including the different story arcs that never ended but that's for another discussion. Even using transporters was something the crew didn't do as they feared the technology would kill them so transporters were only used when absolutely necessary. The Enterprise had body armour rather than shields. Didn't have the ability to fight another ship so at times they had to flee. No, that series was too close to modern reality. I'd like to see a series half a century after TNG AND Voyager.

The problem with Enterprise was it never lived up to its concept. The prequel concept was the best idea they'd had since TNG. But lousy writers who were the same old same from TNG and Voyager were burned out and had nothing left. 

They specifically wanted to avoid episodic story telling. Much like Voy. So nothing meant anything.  

Amd all the "new" tech they introduced they could never maintain their "canon". Can't use transporters. End up using them all the time. Just like Voy where they couldn't use holodecks or replicators because they had to preserve energy. Then that fell by the wayside. 

Enterprise became a more boring Voy. supposedly the original idea was to spend the first year on earth developing the new ship and dealing with the intrigue of trying to get it off the ground  but the network wouldn't let them  

 

[iso_55]

I liked Enterprise compared to Voyager. It had potential & thought the writing got better in Season 4 & 5 but then it was cancelled. The ending of Voyager was the worst of all of them. In the end, it all revolved around Janeway & nobody else. .

[FrostyWinnipeg]

2 hours ago, iso_55 said:

I liked Enterprise compared to Voyager. It had potential & thought the writing got better in Season 4 & 5 but then it was cancelled. The ending of Voyager was the worst of all of them. In the end, it all revolved around Janeway & nobody else. .

Think you mean 3 and 4. There was no 5.

Myself I loved Voyager for the most part.

[iso_55]

The ending really killed whatever legacy that series ever had.

[Jacquie]

5 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Can't use transporters. End up using them all the time. Just like Voy where they couldn't use holodecks or replicators because they had to preserve energy. Then that fell by the wayside. 

On Enterprise they didn't say they couldn't use transporters. They used them all the time for transporting supplies. Using it to transport people was more of a phobia at first because they hadn't been used that way before. Once they were successful at transporting people they did start using them more because they weren't afraid their molecules would be scrambled. 

As for holodecks on Voyager, they could be used because the power that ran them was independent from the ship's main power grid. And they didn't use the replicators that much. When they had the power they could use them but most of the time replicator use was rationed and most of the time the food was prepared from supplies they grew or obtained.

[The Unknown Poster]

Yes but those are silly excuses to bypass limitations that would normally be used to create more challenging stories. But due to laziness they invent reasons why it's ok. Silly. 

 

[iso_55]

I think if Star Trek: Enterprise first season was all about getting the spaceship actually into space then the series would have been cancelled mid season due to lack of any entertaining storylines so I can see why CBS said no to that idea.

[Logan007]

Enterprise was so boring to me.  Especially the crew.  I liked Scott Bakula, but the rest just seemed so lame.  To this day I don't think I watched all four seasons.  I just couldn't take it anymore.  I watched the ending episode just to see the Riker and Troy scene, but that's it.

Voyager I could at least watch, even though it was my least favorite of the 3 newer series at the time (TNG, DS9 and Voyager).  I think it failed because you couldn't abbreviate it's name into an acronym like TNG or DS9. 

I would love if Jonathan Frakes directs a few of the episodes from this new series.  It would also be cool if some of them made cameo's, since some would still be alive 50 years later.  Admiral Riker or something.

[17to85]

17 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Apparently that aspect of the "rumor" has been withdrawn.  Im not in favour of it.  A lot of Trek fans point to Roddenberry wanting to "always go forward" and take it too literal.  When you get that far into the future, we're talking fantasy.  Trek already has technology way beyond what we will have...I want something grounded more in modern reality.

This just doesn't sit well with me. Star Trek is already fantasy and jumping ahead doesn't change that. It's a science fiction series that is no grounded in reality already. 

[The Unknown Poster]

11 hours ago, iso_55 said:

I think if Star Trek: Enterprise first season was all about getting the spaceship actually into space then the series would have been cancelled mid season due to lack of any entertaining storylines so I can see why CBS said no to that idea.

Not true. If they first season was them sitting in an office discussing details of the build then yes that would be boring. But there is plenty of intrigue good writers could write.  And assume they would have been in space in some way just not on the enterprise. 

The first storyline with the Klingons were terrible and violated canon.  It drives me crazy when they either ignore canon or they complain about being handcuffed by canon. Good writers would love the challenge. If a writer wants to ignore what has come before then go write for something else.  Only write Star Trek if you love it and appreciate.