The Unknown Poster Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said: I am a fan of a self contained episode that touches on the season arc- it's pretty good storytelling. You get the immediate gratification every week of a one and done plus investment in the larger story and character development. Though- bring back to life the dude through the mushroom network... that was a bit bunk. It wouldn't surprise me to see them cut back the amount of information in each episode in the future as they do not often allow time to breath. Keep in mind, they had more behind the scenes turmoil this season when the show runners who replaced Fuller were fired after the first few episodes. Sounds like they have stabilized now. Their stated vision, though, was to be as cinematic as possible. In effect, these episodes are like an action movie. Its not as bad as, say, the Kelvin films because TV affords more time to tell the stories but I get the criticism. Someone calling it a soap opera though...he obviously doesnt watch soap operas. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 S2 has the benefit of being nearly spoiler free. In S1 the Tyler/Voq thing was known through IMDB and Jonathan Frakes spoiled the mirror universe story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 2 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said: I am a fan of a self contained episode that touches on the season arc- it's pretty good storytelling. You get the immediate gratification every week of a one and done plus investment in the larger story and character development. Though- bring back to life the dude through the mushroom network... that was a bit bunk. I'm as well but in today's world of pvr'ng as well as being able to watch past episodes it is easier to go back & catch up if you miss an episode when it's aired. But I like the one & done storyline as well. As I recall, that was a big complaint about Enterprise.... the temporal cold war as well as the threat from the Xindi that took entire seasons to tell. Fans didn't like the ongoing story arcs for both. Yet, look at Discovery today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said: I'm as well but in today's world of pvr'ng as well as being able to watch past episodes it is easier to go back & catch up if you miss an episode when it's aired. But I like the one & done storyline as well. As I recall, that was a big complaint about Enterprise.... the temporal cold war as well as the threat from the Xindi that took entire seasons to tell. Fans didn't like the ongoing story arcs for both. Yet, look at Discovery today. Well fans didnt like Enterprise regardless. The choice to do a season long arc didnt help matters but the ratings were declining anyway. I hated the Xindi arc because I thought it was just a boring and poorly told story. DS9 did serialized story-telling way better. Discovery is similar to DS9 but without the "filler" or "stand alone" episodes. But thats also because DS9 had a lot more episodes per season given the standards of TV at the time. JCon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 DS9 was the best Star Trek series by far. Brandon Blue&Gold, JCon and The Unknown Poster 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 I wanted ENT to more simplistic but right off the bat we got the cold-temporal war. As for the show itself it did not get good until end of season 2. I'm just short of finishing TNG. Its been about 20 years i think since i saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said: I wanted ENT to more simplistic but right off the bat we got the cold-temporal war. As for the show itself it did not get good until end of season 2. I'm just short of finishing TNG. Its been about 20 years i think since i saw it. I was so excited for Enterprise but they just didnt embrace their concept. It was just another barely warmed over TNG shadow (like Voyager) rather then a real prequel. I know the producers have said they wanted to be more of a prequel but the studio wouldnt let them. Such as, the producers wanted the whole first season to be the construction of the ship and for the series to be essentially earth bound, which makes a lot more sense. Maybe the Red Angel has something to do with the Temporal Cold War so we can finally resolve that! lol Logan007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 As long as we never return to the days of bottle-episodes (standalone episodes) like TNG, where nothing they did week-to-week mattered. Where time never seemed to matter. Star Trek will always be crippled by the magnitude people that get a say in what happens. It's a franchise run by committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, JCon said: As long as we never return to the days of bottle-episodes (standalone episodes) like TNG, where nothing they did week-to-week mattered. Where time never seemed to matter. Star Trek will always be crippled by the magnitude people that get a say in what happens. It's a franchise run by committee. I agree. I could handle some "slower" episodes of Discovery with more room to breath. But the episodes that referenced past events or had an impact on everything were always the best. Which is what DS9 did the best. And what Voyager did the worst (since every episode they'd get beat up and reset everything at the end). When TNG did Best of Both Worlds and followed that up with Picard going home, it was totally out of the norm for that show and awesome! Brandon Blue&Gold, JCon, Wanna-B-Fanboy and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 50 minutes ago, JCon said: As long as we never return to the days of bottle-episodes (standalone episodes) like TNG, where nothing they did week-to-week mattered. Where time never seemed to matter. Star Trek will always be crippled by the magnitude people that get a say in what happens. It's a franchise run by committee. TNG used a timelines only a couple of time. One, Picard being kidnapped by the Borg & was assimilated. The timeline was Picard needing a break to emotionally & physically recover. So, what does he do? He went back to France to be hounded by his older brother for leaving the family behind when he joined Starfleet. After that, his assimilation was only mentioned a few times. I never understood why the writers would have an episode going back to see his brother's family knowing he'd have to put up with his jerk brother bad behaviour. To me, a badly written & senseless episode. The other where Spock attempts the reconciliation of the Vulcans & Romulans. JCon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said: TNG used a timelines only a couple of time. One, Picard being kidnapped by the Borg & was assimilated. The timeline was Picard needing a break to emotionally & physically recover. So, what does he do? He went back to France to be hounded by his older brother for leaving the family behind when he joined Starfleet. After that, his assimilation was only mentioned a few times. I never understood why the writers would have an episode going back to see his brother's family knowing he'd have to put up with his jerk brother bad behaviour. To me, a badly written & senseless episode. The other where Spock attempts the reconciliation of the Vulcans & Romulans. I thought it was a great episode. It was called "Family" and had that theme running through all the various plots. It was a way to add some weight to the Borg story by having the Enterprise requiring repair at Space Dock rather than being reset. You had Worf's parents visit and Wesley is given a holo-recording of his late father. The story with Picard was great because he was considering leaving Starfleet and staying on Earth. I think the fact that there were unresolved issues between him and his brother was similar to Picard's unresolved feelings of powerlessness over his actions while under the Borg influence. Conversely, Picard's brother wanted his son to stay on Earth and not join Starfleet. It was a good episode. There was also Chain of Command two-parter. And....I think there was another two-partner where Picard masqueraded as a pirate or something. Logan007 and Wanna-B-Fanboy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 26 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: I thought it was a great episode. It was called "Family" and had that theme running through all the various plots. It was a way to add some weight to the Borg story by having the Enterprise requiring repair at Space Dock rather than being reset. You had Worf's parents visit and Wesley is given a holo-recording of his late father. The story with Picard was great because he was considering leaving Starfleet and staying on Earth. I think the fact that there were unresolved issues between him and his brother was similar to Picard's unresolved feelings of powerlessness over his actions while under the Borg influence. Conversely, Picard's brother wanted his son to stay on Earth and not join Starfleet. It was a good episode. There was also Chain of Command two-parter. And....I think there was another two-partner where Picard masqueraded as a pirate or something. Everybody has their favourite or non favourite episodes. That episode just wasn't one of mine. The Unknown Poster and Wanna-B-Fanboy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Everybody has their favourite or non favourite episodes. That episode just wasn't one of mine. Let's just hate Masks shall we? The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said: Let's just hate Masks shall we? OMFG that was a horrible episode. As bad as Spock's Brain. The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Are we confident that all the trouble with Tribbles has been resolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/07/patrick-stewarts-star-trek-spin-off-name-revealed-fans-seriously-unimpressed-8845189 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 STD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted March 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 The rumour was that it would be called Jean-Luc. Destiny seems a little....I don’t know, manufactured. Pretentious? it doesn’t really matter. Anyway, heck of an episode of discovery tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 10 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said: The rumour was that it would be called Jean-Luc. Destiny seems a little....I don’t know, manufactured. Pretentious? it doesn’t really matter. Anyway, heck of an episode of discovery tonight! The telepathic aliens & Veena from the Menagerie, wow. That was a major surprise. I need some kind of explanation regarding Captain Pike who was horribly disfigured & in a wheelchair. He was supposed to be living on Talos 4 where he was under the illusion (from the aliens) that he & Veena were happy & healthy. Yet, we see Pike functioning & healthy as Captain of the Discovery. I thought Pike's injuries were still in the future & not already happened. So, is his good health an illusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted March 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said: The telepathic aliens & Veena from the Menagerie, wow. That was a major surprise. I need some kind of explanation regarding Captain Pike who was horribly disfigured & in a wheelchair. He was supposed to be living on Talos 4 where he was under the illusion (from the aliens) that he & Veena were happy & healthy. Yet, we see Pike functioning & healthy as Captain of the Discovery. I thought Pike's injuries were still in the future & not already happened. So, is his good health an illusion? The Cage (the original pilot for Star Trek) takes place 3 years before this episode of Discovery. In The Cage, Pike first visits Talos. He leaves Talos perfectly fine but the Talosions create an illusion of Pike to keep Vena happy. Ten years after this episode of Discovery is when The Menagerie takes place. That is shortly after Pike suffers his injury and Spock takes him to Talos to live out his life with the illusion of health. SpeedFlex27 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 39 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: The Cage (the original pilot for Star Trek) takes place 3 years before this episode of Discovery. In The Cage, Pike first visits Talos. He leaves Talos perfectly fine but the Talosions create an illusion of Pike to keep Vena happy. Ten years after this episode of Discovery is when The Menagerie takes place. That is shortly after Pike suffers his injury and Spock takes him to Talos to live out his life with the illusion of health. Could not say it better myself. It's why we had the "Previously on ST..." though i might have had them quickly reshoot all new scenes The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted March 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, FrostyWinnipeg said: Could not say it better myself. It's why we had the "Previously on ST..." though i might have had them quickly reshoot all new scenes I really enjoyed this episode and thought it added a lot of missing pieces to The Menagerie. I always wondered why Spock would conspire with the Talosians or trust them after the events of The Cage. Or why Pike would want to go there. But in this DIS episode we learn more of the connection between Pike & Vina plus see that the Talosians had helped Spock before.... It also explains their power to create that insane illusion of Commodore Mendez in The Menagerie (Starbase 11, mentioned in Dis as being close to Talos is the Starbase Kirk picks up Pike in The Menagerie). It always seemed too powerful...but we see them do it in this episode but learn it takes a major toll to create an illusion that far out. The only negative in the episode was finally learning the cause of the rift between Spock & Michael. It came across as not that big of a deal and likely one of those corners Fuller's ideas painted the current creative people into. I assume there is a bit more to it assuming Michael ended up back living with Spock after she insulted him. We know from last season's flashbacks that Michael became more Vulcan-like. Since it was noted last night that she was helping Spock with his humanity, perhaps she decided to out-Vulcan him, If Spock took that insult as reason to turn away from his human side, it still doesnt really explain why he turned his back on the Science Academy (and his father) to join Star Fleet. When Michael (as a child) said "stop following me", I almost wondered if that will come up later and be something Spock sort of did...followed Michael to Star Fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 On 2019-03-08 at 11:01 AM, The Unknown Poster said: I really enjoyed this episode and thought it added a lot of missing pieces to The Menagerie. I always wondered why Spock would conspire with the Talosians or trust them after the events of The Cage. Or why Pike would want to go there. But in this DIS episode we learn more of the connection between Pike & Vina plus see that the Talosians had helped Spock before.... It also explains their power to create that insane illusion of Commodore Mendez in The Menagerie (Starbase 11, mentioned in Dis as being close to Talos is the Starbase Kirk picks up Pike in The Menagerie). It always seemed too powerful...but we see them do it in this episode but learn it takes a major toll to create an illusion that far out. The only negative in the episode was finally learning the cause of the rift between Spock & Michael. It came across as not that big of a deal and likely one of those corners Fuller's ideas painted the current creative people into. I assume there is a bit more to it assuming Michael ended up back living with Spock after she insulted him. We know from last season's flashbacks that Michael became more Vulcan-like. Since it was noted last night that she was helping Spock with his humanity, perhaps she decided to out-Vulcan him, If Spock took that insult as reason to turn away from his human side, it still doesnt really explain why he turned his back on the Science Academy (and his father) to join Star Fleet. When Michael (as a child) said "stop following me", I almost wondered if that will come up later and be something Spock sort of did...followed Michael to Star Fleet. hard to believe a Vulcan would get upset over comments like that meant to insult. I thought the comment "half breed" was so 1960's as it's a term that was common back then but uncommon now. A throwback to TOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyWinnipeg Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 This year Wil Wheaton will be as old as Patrick Stewart was when TNG premiered. JCon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said: This year Wil Wheaton will be as old as Patrick Stewart was when TNG premiered. JCon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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