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Covid-19


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9 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Quit deflecting from the standard set, if you can't hold both sides to the same standard you are a hypocrite.

Not at all.  That's a great idea though and I feel you should subscribe to it.  You just want to keep pushing something because you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the alt right and an equally unhealthy obsession with criticizing the left.  And you rarely make any sort of discussion point.  You call names or make insults or post clearly biased stories.  You're not interested in people being fair because fair to you is waving the banner of the alt right.  That's pretty obvious my friend.

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3 minutes ago, bustamente said:

Red Cross Red Crescent Learning network

And you ain't seen nothing yet. Hospitals in Texas are gearing up for a massive wave of Covid19 cases following the lifting of restrictions. The governor acknowledges that there will be a surge of cases and accompanying deaths, but pleasing his (mostly) insane base has priority.

Edited by Tracker
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16 hours ago, Noeller said:

There's no vaccine YET but there will be one. Life will not fully return to normal until that vaccine is ready and available to the world. Hopefully this calendar year but might not be until sometime in 2021... Until that time, we'll continue to live this "new normal". 

Despite many years of research, no vaccines were ever developed for malaria, dengue, HIV/AIDS, or coronaviruses.

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22 minutes ago, J5V said:

Mike Ryan, Sweden's approach will be the model that we all should have followed. 

Not quite.

I think if we are to reach a new normal, Sweden represents a model if we wish to get back to a society in which we don’t have lockdowns,Ryan said.

Also,  Sweden’s approach has been criticized by 2,300 academics who penned a letter last month calling for the government to reconsider its loose restrictions, Agence France-Press reported.

👁‍🗨 May 7 24,623 cases, 3040 deaths.

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18 minutes ago, J5V said:

If you listen to the interview I posted the gentleman says they tested a bunch of people in Germany and found a 15% infection rate. Go to about the 1:20 mark and you'll hear him describe what happened. They found those people had antibodies present for the virus. They took those antibodies and placed them in a dish with live covid-19 viruses and the antibodies destroyed the virus. What does that suggest to you? To me it suggests that upon exposure to the virus on a healthy human body that body will produce antibodies that are effective at destroying the virus. In this way, herd immunity develops and indeed, epidemiological science supports that conclusion. Sweden's approach has been to protect the most vulnerable while allowing the strong and healthy to go about their business. The side effect of that approach involves developing herd immunity which should negate the problematic approach that we have taken in regards to lockdowns and the threat of second or third waves of infection upon release from the lockdown. Sweden's approach did not include locking down their society and economy yet they have been able to not overwhelm their health system by following some simple guidelines like hand washing, social distancing, no hand shaking, etc. They realize now, hindsight always being 20-20, that they needed to do a much better job protecting their elderly which has resulted in the vast majority of their spike in deaths but this doesn't mean that their approach was wrong, just that they needed to do better. As time goes by, and this was hinted at by WHO Executive Director, Mike Ryan, Sweden's approach will be the model that we all should have followed. 

It's way too early to make any kind of determination as to what is/was the best approach.  New Zealand pretty much kicked everyone else's ass by locking things right down immediately.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Not quite.

I think if we are to reach a new normal, Sweden represents a model if we wish to get back to a society in which we don’t have lockdowns,Ryan said.

Also,  Sweden’s approach has been criticized by 2,300 academics who penned a letter last month calling for the government to reconsider its loose restrictions, Agence France-Press reported.

👁‍🗨 May 7 24,623 cases, 3040 deaths.

Yes, and they have stayed the course despite mounting, spiteful pressure, and have since won endorsements from a number of eminent academics and professionals, like Professor Heneghan who hailed Sweden for “holding its nerve,” in the face of such public condemnation and western mainstream, and even the UN itself, are acknowledging their success.

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38 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

It's way too early to make any kind of determination as to what is/was the best approach.  New Zealand pretty much kicked everyone else's ass by locking things right down immediately.

"The opposition, led by National party leader, Simon Bridges, reversed earlier support for Ardern on the need for a lockdown. Business owners felt as though they were “sacrificial lambs” due to the shutdown measures, Bridges told a parliamentary committee."

“I now worry that the harm of staying in lockdown will be greater than if we were to come out,” Bridges wrote in a post on his Facebook page on Monday. “We will no doubt see a rise in mental health problems and stress related illnesses.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/ardern-accused-of-making-new-zealand-businesses-sacrificial-lambs-in-covid-19-lockdown

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3 minutes ago, J5V said:

"The opposition, led by National party leader, Simon Bridges, reversed earlier support for Ardern on the need for a lockdown. Business owners felt as though they were “sacrificial lambs” due to the shutdown measures, Bridges told a parliamentary committee."

“I now worry that the harm of staying in lockdown will be greater than if we were to come out,” Bridges wrote in a post on his Facebook page on Monday. “We will no doubt see a rise in mental health problems and stress related illnesses.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/ardern-accused-of-making-new-zealand-businesses-sacrificial-lambs-in-covid-19-lockdown

New Zealand:  .4 deaths per 100,000

Sweden:  29.9 deaths per 100,000

I'm shocked!  Shocked that a Conservative politician would put business before lives.

Interesting how many New Zealanders have reacted to his response:

Simon Bridges' leadership questioned after missteps in response to coronavirus crisis

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121237712/simon-bridges-leadership-questioned-after-missteps-in-response-to-coronavirus-crisis

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In the United States, which has suffered the most coronavirus deaths, the toll per million inhabitants is lower than Sweden's at 219.
The head of Sweden's coronavirus response said in a new interview that the country's high death toll had "come as a surprise" and was "really something we worry a lot about. -Dr. Anders Tegnell

I had this very conversation with a fence post on my walk today, but it had a rigid stance about it. 
I put a paper bag over it...just in case.

 

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39 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

It's way too early to make any kind of determination as to what is/was the best approach.  New Zealand pretty much kicked everyone else's ass by locking things right down immediately.

The U.S., the largest of the lock-down countries and the one that the world depends upon, has had more than 30 million people, 1/6th of their workforce, file for unemployment benefits. My gawd that's a staggering number of people. Millions more workers have lost their employment but have not filed claims because of their immigration status or because they were self-employed, contract workers or others who typically are not eligible. Further, EPI estimated 12 million workers did not file claims because state unemployment claims systems were overwhelmed making it too difficult. Economists believe the real jobless rate is quickly reaching the record 25.6 percent at the height of the Great Depression. The U.S. economy, under this lock-down, shrank by a 4.8 percent annual rate in the first quarter of this year and it is predicted it may shrink at a 40 percent annual rate in the second quarter, a collapse without precedent. EPI further estimates that due to this lock-down 12.7 million workers have lost employer-paid medical insurance in the midst of the pandemic, the worst health crisis in 100 years, meaning countless families face the impossible choice of forgoing treatment or facing crippling debts. The economic fallout of this lock-down is spiralling upwards as deaths soar. Surely this is a disaster. 

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1 minute ago, J5V said:

The U.S., the largest of the lock-down countries and the one that the world depends upon, has had more than 30 million people, 1/6th of their workforce, file for unemployment benefits. My gawd that's a staggering number of people. Millions more workers have lost their employment but have not filed claims because of their immigration status or because they were self-employed, contract workers or others who typically are not eligible. Further, EPI estimated 12 million workers did not file claims because state unemployment claims systems were overwhelmed making it too difficult. Economists believe the real jobless rate is quickly reaching the record 25.6 percent at the height of the Great Depression. The U.S. economy, under this lock-down, shrank by a 4.8 percent annual rate in the first quarter of this year and it is predicted it may shrink at a 40 percent annual rate in the second quarter, a collapse without precedent. EPI further estimates that due to this lock-down 12.7 million workers have lost employer-paid medical insurance in the midst of the pandemic, the worst health crisis in 100 years, meaning countless families face the impossible choice of forgoing treatment or facing crippling debts. The economic fallout of this lock-down is spiralling upwards as deaths soar. Surely this is a disaster. 

I agree that the American economic and health care delivery models are so flawed that the country cannot withstand a temporary setback.  But hey, stock markets are on the rise, so it's all good!

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Two things about New Zealand, they reacted very quickly in implementing their lock-down which resulted in a very fast suspension of infections. The question for them is the same as for any country that chose lock-down, without a vaccine or herd immunity, what happens when the next wave(s) comes?

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25 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

And she makes a great point.  By not only flattening the curve, but squashing it, her country is now way ahead in terms of getting back to normal, which makes investment more appetizing.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-05-06/pm-ardern-touts-new-zealand-as-safe-haven-for-investment

Same question, with no vaccine or natural immunity built up, what happens when the lock-down is lifted and their population has no protection against a wave of infections?

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20 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

I agree that the American economic and health care delivery models are so flawed that the country cannot withstand a temporary setback.  But hey, stock markets are on the rise, so it's all good!

This is true and my heart really does go out to the decent, average, hard-working American people that are taking it on the chin right now. The stock markets are rising due to the influx of trillion of dollars in stimulus cash. What a bizarre scenario as the Fed prints cash and devalues the American dollar, the effects of which will be felt by virtually every economy in the world. Further, it is my understanding that only $150 billion of the nearly $3 trillion coronavirus relief package – a mere 5% – has been allocated to the 50 states and they are not allowed to use it where they need it most, to plug the holes in their budgets caused by the mandatory lock-down.

Edited by J5V
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48 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

In the United States, which has suffered the most coronavirus deaths, the toll per million inhabitants is lower than Sweden's at 219.
The head of Sweden's coronavirus response said in a new interview that the country's high death toll had "come as a surprise" and was "really something we worry a lot about. -Dr. Anders Tegnell

I had this very conversation with a fence post on my walk today, but it had a rigid stance about it. 
I put a paper bag over it...just in case.

 

SWEDEN-CHART-1.jpg

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1 minute ago, Mr Dee said:

Someone had fun colouring..

"Among anti-herders, it is popular to compare the current number of Covid-19 deaths by country and as a proportion of the population. Such comparisons are misleading, as they ignore the existence of herd immunity. A country much closer to herd immunity will ultimately do better even if their current death count is somewhat higher. The key statistic is instead the number of deaths per infected. Those data are still elusive, but comparisons and strategies should not be based on misleading data just because the relevant data are unavailable.

While it is not perfect, Sweden has come closest to an age-based strategy by keeping elementary schools, stores and restaurants open, while older people are encouraged to stay at home. Stockholm may become the first place to reach herd immunity, which will protect high-risk groups better than anything else until there is a cure or vaccine."

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/29/delaying-herd-immunity-is-costing-lives/

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2 hours ago, Tracker said:

And you ain't seen nothing yet. Hospitals in Texas are gearing up for a massive wave of Covid19 cases following the lifting of restrictions. The governor acknowledges that there will be a surge of cases and accompanying deaths, but pleasing his (mostly) insane base has priority.

Unfortunately, he'll find out. Then maybe he'll finally understand the way Andrew Cuomo does.

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