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CIS Draft - May 2nd

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33 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

But you're not a realist, that's why people always argue with you. Being negative is just as biased as being positive. Doesn't make it any more of a realist. 

How do you see  'lets see what we have before we fit them for all star jerseys' as negative? It's just the reality of the draft.

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4 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

How do you see  'lets see what we have before we fit them for all star jerseys' as negative? It's just the reality of the draft.

I’m not sure that anyone is suggesting these players are sure fire All Stars and if they are, those people aren’t worth arguing with. Just out of curiosity, are you happy about the draft the Bombers had and if not, what would have needed to go differently to make you happy?

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2 hours ago, Atomic said:

People shouldn't count out our two OL picks from last year either... Matthew Ouellet de Carlo and Ben Koczwara. This season, De Carlo was an AUS allstar at tackle and Koczwara was a first team OUA allstar at guard. Both players should legitimately compete for spots at camp along with Neufeld, Couture, Gray, Speller and Desjarlais.

Great point, those two are not todd krenbrinks. The OL battle this year is going to be epic. Lots of talented young guys, spots within reach, some good players are going to get cut. At this point NI wr and NI ol are the spots to watch. 

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We're all judged by what we say here. Good & bad. I can't remember a positive T Burg post recently. To him there is always something wrong. That people here are just buying into the narrative the Bombers want us to buy into. That something is never right.  He will argue the opposite if people are happy or satisfied. That's what I take out of T Burg's posts.

As I said, we are judged here for what we say, I have no way to psychoanalyze the hidden meaning of something posted. If someone is always negative when good things happen then that to me simply means that person is always negative & may even welcome  failure. I'm not into this... "Oh, he's a great fan but he just doesn't show it".  I don't believe that. You either are a great fan or you're not. How many times have we read T Burg bitching after a win about something immaterial that happened during the game that had no affect on the score? Like a pick or fumble that turned out to be inconsequential.  I mean, that's just typical T Burg. That's how I see it but like 17to85 said it's getting tiring always reading the negative when there shouldn't be any. 

And T Burg, lest you think you're in my head, I have you on ignore so you're not. The only way I see what you say is when someone quotes you. I read what you say after the fact & I just shake my head.

Edited by SpeedFlex27

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1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

I’m a realist. 

I’m positive about that. 

 But I can enjoy the good and accept the bad.

That is life. In all areas.

Handle the disappointments and enjoy the good things. There’s nothing wrong with looking forward to an event/occasion or even a new member of a football team.

Why wait years to enjoy the moment?

After all, we only have so many moments..

"Deep Thoughts with Mr Dee"

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25 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

I’m not sure that anyone is suggesting these players are sure fire All Stars and if they are, those people aren’t worth arguing with. Just out of curiosity, are you happy about the draft the Bombers had and if not, what would have needed to go differently to make you happy?

Overall, I think it was a good draft. I didn't like the RB pick because I don't think he was the BPA at the time (Wilkinson was IMO). Even if Eli doesn't turn out, I don't see a better use of the 34th pick. I don't really care past the 3rd round because I don't even know the players.

I don't expect Desjarlais will get any playing time this year. He may even end up off the game day roster.

Due to injury, don't expect Kongbo to do much of anything this year. He'll miss TC. He'll likely be ready to go mid-season. After that, I hope he at least gets some reps in the D line rotation. I'm assuming that he will sign a 2 year plus an option, which means if he does really well, we get a season and a half from him.

Eli has a ton of upside and a ton of questions. He didn't play and didn't go to school last year, which IIRC means he can't go back to school this year. Will he take a PR spot? Will he even show up?

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1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

Overall, I think it was a good draft. I didn't like the RB pick because I don't think he was the BPA at the time (Wilkinson was IMO). Even if Eli doesn't turn out, I don't see a better use of the 34th pick. I don't really care past the 3rd round because I don't even know the players.

I don't expect Desjarlais will get any playing time this year. He may even end up off the game day roster.

Due to injury, don't expect Kongbo to do much of anything this year. He'll miss TC. He'll likely be ready to go mid-season. After that, I hope he at least gets some reps in the D line rotation. I'm assuming that he will sign a 2 year plus an option, which means if he does really well, we get a season and a half from him.

Eli has a ton of upside and a ton of questions. He didn't play and didn't go to school last year, which IIRC means he can't go back to school this year. Will he take a PR spot? Will he even show up?

Actually the rb pick was a good one..especially since we grabbed Eli..which appears to be the plan as we seemed to have insider info he was wanting to play again that most people didnt have.

Another olineman wasnt a need and would be overkill..and Irons and Oliviera were a toss up..each had things in their arsenal that are better than each other.. and I think in end Oliviera will be the better all around guys and the fact he is local means we wont see him dissapear in a few years..so a smart pick. 

Also a higher ranked receiver would also be overkill.. no room for one anyway with our 4 man depth as it is now for what will be 2 spots..and just cause some of the media speculates 3 imports on the oline doesn't mean management sees it that way..I'd be beyond shocked with that scenario considering the nationals we have vying for 2 spots. 

We are going to go same as last year..national safety and 6 on offence..but will have nice ratio flex on defense if required..you could even see where  Kongbo is 100 percent times with a national on the line and 5 import db's...

 

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3 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

I’m a realist. 

I’m positive about that. 

 But I can enjoy the good and accept the bad.

That is life. In all areas.

Handle the disappointments and enjoy the good things. There’s nothing wrong with looking forward to an event/occasion or even a new member of a football team.

Why wait years to enjoy the moment?

After all, we only have so many moments..

Perfectly said.

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8 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Overall, I think it was a good draft. I didn't like the RB pick because I don't think he was the BPA at the time (Wilkinson was IMO). Even if Eli doesn't turn out, I don't see a better use of the 34th pick. I don't really care past the 3rd round because I don't even know the players.

I don't expect Desjarlais will get any playing time this year. He may even end up off the game day roster.

Due to injury, don't expect Kongbo to do much of anything this year. He'll miss TC. He'll likely be ready to go mid-season. After that, I hope he at least gets some reps in the D line rotation. I'm assuming that he will sign a 2 year plus an option, which means if he does really well, we get a season and a half from him.

Eli has a ton of upside and a ton of questions. He didn't play and didn't go to school last year, which IIRC means he can't go back to school this year. Will he take a PR spot? Will he even show up?

I don't think any of this is particularly unreasonable, though it is classic erring on the side of negativity. It's pretty clearly the best draft of any team in 2019, even if you rightly suggest that you can't judge a draft immediately after it happens. This is as impressive and diverse a haul as we could possibly have hoped for through the first five picks.

I wasn't thrilled at the time with Oliviera but the more I've looked into it, the more I like it. Being able to play a Canadian at RB is a massive plus, let alone one who can run, catch and block. Oliviera has the ability and pedigree to be Andrew Harris, even if he doesn't top out at his level. I was more interested in Wilkinson but there's clearly a reason he dropped as far as he did and Oliviera is a better pro prospect at a more unique position. Beyond that, missing out on one high potential player in favor of another is not something I would generally complain about. I think your previous statement that every prospect has pro potential before they play a game is way off. There are countless players that are drafted that even the picks themselves know their ceiling is a high motor depth special teams player. All five of the Bombers first picks have definite star potential which is more than we can say about any other team's picks.

Desjarlais was without a doubt the right pick at that spot. Very, very low bust potential and a very high chance to be a good to great player for a long time. I don't think I need to preface that every prospect ever taken has a chance at busting and that's not a good reason to have high expectations and optimism for high draft picks. There is essentially no chance that he starts the season as anything lower than the sixth o-lineman. They aren't going to risk PRing him and risking another team taking him a la Jacob Ruby a few years ago.

Kongbo was the best defensive prospect the CFL draft has seen in an extremely long time. Combined with the fact that he had minimal NFL interest, his pick was a no-brainer. ACL injuries are not really of any concern in 2019. It won't affect his long term explosiveness and the argument can be made that the injury was a good thing for the Bombers since it basically took him completely off the NFL radar without the risk of long term complications. He is a good enough prospect that even with missing the entire camp, he can contribute this season and if the Bombers want to ease him into the lineup or hold off until next season, it's really not a big deal as Jefferson is on a one year deal and he could theoretically step into that spot in the situation where Jefferson doesn't re-sign. You have to make that selection. He had by far the biggest star potential in this draft. Above even Betts who is overrated and extremely one dimensional. You cannot restrict yourself by not drafting a player because you may lose him after his first contract. If you lose him to the NFL because he was so good that he gets that opportunity, so be it. He's not a huge risk to "go home" for his second deal because he has minimal ties to any other CFL market.

Griffiths is a perfect Jake Thomas upgrade/replacement. He will get reps this season and he has every bit of talent to succeed at the pro level.

I get cautious optimism but it's hard for me to get behind anything less than that regarding this draft. It was as close to a home run as you can get for something that is highly chance related. I respect your right to call some people out for being needlessly positive about certain things, hell I find is as annoying as you do. I've been critical of Walters for a number of things and he's had some extremely questionable draft decisions. Ekakitie at 1 and Brendan Morgan over Lemar Durant stick out as blunders that were extremely obvious even at the time and his (or his staff's) ability to find International stars has been lacking to the point of being laughable. It's just that sometimes it's nice to just be happy when things go as well as anyone could have reasonably expected.

Edited by AKAChip

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2 hours ago, CodyT said:

In case you missed it coming back this year??

Thanks for asking CodyT. 

I’d like to bring it back, but l’ll just see if my health issues dig into my time again.

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6 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Overall, I think it was a good draft. I didn't like the RB pick because I don't think he was the BPA at the time (Wilkinson was IMO). Even if Eli doesn't turn out, I don't see a better use of the 34th pick. I don't really care past the 3rd round because I don't even know the players. I don't expect Desjarlais will get any playing time this year. He may even end up off the game day roster.

Due to injury, don't expect Kongbo to do much of anything this year. He'll miss TC. He'll likely be ready to go mid-season. After that, I hope he at least gets some reps in the D line rotation. I'm assuming that he will sign a 2 year plus an option, which means if he does really well, we get a season and a half from him.

Eli has a ton of upside and a ton of questions. He didn't play and didn't go to school last year, which IIRC means he can't go back to school this year. Will he take a PR spot? Will he even show up?

Every draft pick is a gamble and we will not know for sure how well the Bombers did in the draft until September. However, Oliviera looks to have been a great pick. He is a local boy, and looks to be a punishing runner with intelligence, character and drive. Moreover, Harris is not getting any younger, so stacking NI talent behind him is a very good idea. I loved the pick.

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6 hours ago, Brandon said:

I'm just glad we didn't blow a first rounder on a white receiver with zero physical abilities. 

To be fair, they could run. They just couldn't do anything else. Jade Etienne is the scrawniest pro football player I've ever seen. I loved our approach to this draft. Walters n co did a great job of getting immediate value while keeping high upside. Seemingly every player we picked could legitimately be on the roster and contribute with play on teams, and short yardage packages. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Every draft pick is a gamble and we will not know for sure how well the Bombers did in the draft until September. However, Oliviera looks to have been a great pick. He is a local boy, and looks to be a punishing runner with intelligence, character and drive. Moreover, Harris is not getting any younger, so stacking NI talent behind him is a very good idea. I loved the pick.

Also, he isn't as big but since Normand left we haven't had a good blocker for in front of Harris and he can fill that role. 

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13 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

You've got that wrong and you know it. You're one of those 'If you're not overtly positive all the time, you're negative' folks. I look at both sides, not just at the positives. You used to do that too, but have gone over to the Pollyanna side.

Now you seem more interested in how negative I am than anything else. Angry that I don't see things the same way you do. If you and others didn't care what I type, you'd let it go. You wouldn't consistently bring up my name or call me out. You'd just think... that guy doesn't think the same as I do. It's kinda of funny/sad actually considering how you react to every tiny perceived slight against you on these boards.

I want the Bombers to get 1st in the West and go on to win the Grey Cup. I was at the game the last time they won it all. I still remember what it felt like.

I want the Bombers to make the right decisions so they can win the Cup again. I don't assume that every decision they make is good or bad. I call each one as I see it. I don't assume that just because it's a good looking pick that it's going to work out, because lots of good looking picks never work out. I don't assume that players who gave up on football or were out of the game for a year or more will suddenly become fully invested again and that's what it takes to play in the CFL. I don't assume that a blown out knee will get back to normal especially in the short term. I don't assume that 'if he hadn't got injured' or 'if he hadn't taken a year off' he'd have been drafted to the NFL is true or even means anything. I don't assume that this years draft picks are all going to be starters, let alone as good as the all stars we lost. I agree that everything might turn out the way we hope it does, but I don't assume it.

Positive side??? That.. more like positive fraction.. like 5% lol

And that's ok.  Just own it.  You have one of the most pessimistic viewpoints on the board.. and you never, ever ever ever just own it! You always try to refute that and then follow it up with a post like the one about our oline prospects. 

 

I really dont think many people here would be constantly on you about stuff if you would just admit that you have a slant to your view on the bombers that is decidedly negative. 

 

And if you dont see it.. you're somehow  blocking it out lol..

 

At the end of the day tho, it's good to have the Ying to the Yang on here or else this board would be too much like TEP and we would have people losing their minds daily... not just weekly or semi-weekly. 

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I don't think we needed another RB. Augustine is fine as a backup and I'd hope that we look for the best RB once Harris is done, not the best NI RB. I don't like Oliveira's speed, the fact he didn't go to the combine or that his mouth that writes cheques his talent can't cash ("Oliveira, who believes he should be the first overall pick in this year’s CFL draft"). I doubt we would have drafted him if he wasn't a home town pick.

I'd have picked Wilkinson INSTEAD of Eli. Less questions. Less potential downside. Played last year. Was at the combine. Was ranked higher in the draft. Is in football shape. Plays all 5 OL positions. Is smart (degrees in pre-law/philosophy and communications with a minor in business administration). Hasn't quit football.

Since Walters took over he's had 5 drafts, 2014-2018 (I'm not counting this draft because we have zero idea of what we have yet). He's drafted 3 all stars in that time frame and we lost all of them this off season. He had 4 busts (Ekakite, Corney, Richards, Waggoner). Woli is a bona-fide starter, we have some special teamers and we have a few guys who will get a chance to start this year.

Folks need to stop reading all my posts in an Eeyore voice. It's not that I only look at 5% of the positives, it's that there's no need to repeat the positives that others have already posted.

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Corney was far from a bust...awesome special teamer and productive in his rotational reps...the fact that he hung up the cleats for injury/health concerns doesn't equate bust..you can never forshadow that and he never had injury issues in college..Waggoner as well...played great and could have stepped into the starting safety role as he had a better skill set than Loffler...but how can you tell after 3 years the guy is gonna go peddle online water stuff...you can't

In regards to Eli..it doesn't take much for a football O-line man to get back to football shape, unless they seriously went another direction and dropped 70 to 100 pounds, and from what I have heard he is same weight as when he played..plus or minus 5 to 10 pounds..so he has all the time leading up to, and during camp to get in "football shape" whatever that is as in these days, all players stay in football shape other than game wind but you can't get that until you start camp..so he is not behind anyone in that regard..I wouldn't be surprised he starts coming out of camp

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13 minutes ago, Booch said:

In regards to Eli..it doesn't take much for a football O-line man to get back to football shape

Anyone else remember when Gerry Sawatzky started on the o-line in 2000 after spending a decade in prison?

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22 minutes ago, Booch said:

Corney was far from a bust...awesome special teamer and productive in his rotational reps...the fact that he hung up the cleats for injury/health concerns doesn't equate bust..you can never forshadow that and he never had injury issues in college..Waggoner as well...played great and could have stepped into the starting safety role as he had a better skill set than Loffler...but how can you tell after 3 years the guy is gonna go peddle online water stuff...you can't

In regards to Eli..it doesn't take much for a football O-line man to get back to football shape, unless they seriously went another direction and dropped 70 to 100 pounds, and from what I have heard he is same weight as when he played..plus or minus 5 to 10 pounds..so he has all the time leading up to, and during camp to get in "football shape" whatever that is as in these days, all players stay in football shape other than game wind but you can't get that until you start camp..so he is not behind anyone in that regard..I wouldn't be surprised he starts coming out of camp

I wasn’t aware Corney retired due to injury concerns. I must have missed that discussion on here because I was surprised the Bombers didn’t try to re-sign him.  Now I know.

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