Rogue One *SPOILERS*

[bb.king]

I agree with the slow beginning, but great movie overall comments. I thought it would have been neat to reference a young Wedge as a member of Rouge One who is one of few to survive the battle. Further establish his horseshoe-up-the-ass credentials! Unless they did and I missed it. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, bb.king said:

Rouge One

[The Unknown Poster]

Saw it tonight for the second time. No heat in the theatre. But aside from that it was enjoyable. 

I still find the ending clunky. We know the Tantive was on Yavin after Bail called Antilles with a mission (which was to take Leia to Tatooine to find Obi Wan). 

And yet the Tantive hid out inside the command ship and went to what many of them thought was a suicide mission. Makes no sense. 

Would have been better if Bail ordered the Tantive to Tatooine, Antilles objected cause he didn't want to miss the battle and Bail insisted. Would have made the mission to get Obi wan more important. Then have the Tantive monitoring the battle, seeing it not going well and swoop in, receive the transmission and swoop out. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

14 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Saw it tonight for the second time. No heat in the theatre. But aside from that it was enjoyable. 

I still find the ending clunky. We know the Tantive was on Yavin after Bail called Antilles with a mission (which was to take Leia to Tatooine to find Obi Wan). 

And yet the Tantive hid out inside the command ship and went to what many of them thought was a suicide mission. Makes no sense. 

Would have been better if Bail ordered the Tantive to Tatooine, Antilles objected cause he didn't want to miss the battle and Bail insisted. Would have made the mission to get Obi wan more important. Then have the Tantive monitoring the battle, seeing it not going well and swoop in, receive the transmission and swoop out. 

I wondered that too, and read some stuff on it,  like the Tantive IV was damaged from an earlier mission and was docked on Radus' ship for repairs when everyone was called to arms at Scarif. So she may have been intending to go to tatooine, but was sidetracked.  It's clear tho once she took off from Scarif she was going directly to Tatooine,  hence why the escape pod with R2 and C3P0 was able to make it there with ease

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I wondered that too, and read some stuff on it,  like the Tantive IV was damaged from an earlier mission and was docked on Radus' ship for repairs when everyone was called to arms at Scarif. So she may have been intending to go to tatooine, but was sidetracked.  It's clear tho once she took off from Scarif she was going directly to Tatooine,  hence why the escape pod with R2 and C3P0 was able to make it there with ease

Maybe that will be some other story.  But in THIS film, it was unclear.  Actually it wasnt unclear, it was just stupid.

Bail allowed his daughter, the Princess, to go into a suicide mission.  Worse, as far as we know, she's the only other person besides Bail who knew where Obi Wan was and, as we later learned, Bail died shortly thereafter. 

Its a good thing "will of the force" is a big part of Star Wars and how things are destined to unfold a certain way, because there are big logic holes.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I suppose they could have cleared things up, but if bail left for alderaan before Leia with the assumption she was going to Tatooine with the escort of Admiral Radus,  but enroute to tatooine or  just before they left it was an all or nothing last ditch effort to help at scarif to get that battle plan, they needed Radus' ship it might have been a split second decision. 

Now dont forget too,  if Leia doesnt go to Scarif, she doesnt get those death star plans,  so until she gets those plans,  she is just another rebel alliance member with a title

[Taynted_Fayth]

it would be interesting in the "What if" world Leia had gone straight to Tatooine to find Obi Wan instead of side tracked to Scarif.  Would Obi Wan introduce her to her brother Luke then and there and then train them in secret? The empire wouldn't have been anywhere near Tatooine chasing droids, so they wouldnt have been bothered. Also makes me wonder why this wasn't the plan to begin with.  When Luke and Leia were babies it was important to hide them from Vader,  but at what point do you say ok it's been X number of years, heats off, lets get back to training the next generation of Jedi

[The Unknown Poster]

20 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

it would be interesting in the "What if" world Leia had gone straight to Tatooine to find Obi Wan instead of side tracked to Scarif.  Would Obi Wan introduce her to her brother Luke then and there and then train them in secret? The empire wouldn't have been anywhere near Tatooine chasing droids, so they wouldnt have been bothered. Also makes me wonder why this wasn't the plan to begin with.  When Luke and Leia were babies it was important to hide them from Vader,  but at what point do you say ok it's been X number of years, heats off, lets get back to training the next generation of Jedi

Hiding Luke SKYWALKER from his father Anakin SKYWALKER on Tatooine where his father is from by giving him to his step brother and his wife to raise.  What a plan!

Obi Wan sort of implied he wanted to train Luke but Owen wouldnt allow it.  Obi Wan insinuated that Luke would begin training.  Luke blew him off at first, until his Aunt & Uncle were killed.  So it seems the plan all along was to train Luke.  The real hidden twin was leia.  She was the fail safe.

29 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I suppose they could have cleared things up, but if bail left for alderaan before Leia with the assumption she was going to Tatooine with the escort of Admiral Radus,  but enroute to tatooine or  just before they left it was an all or nothing last ditch effort to help at scarif to get that battle plan, they needed Radus' ship it might have been a split second decision. 

Now dont forget too,  if Leia doesnt go to Scarif, she doesnt get those death star plans,  so until she gets those plans,  she is just another rebel alliance member with a title

True but thats what I mean by clunky and really a poor job of explaining all this.

[Taynted_Fayth]

13 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Hiding Luke SKYWALKER from his father Anakin SKYWALKER on Tatooine where his father is from by giving him to his step brother and his wife to raise.  What a plan!

Obi Wan sort of implied he wanted to train Luke but Owen wouldnt allow it.  Obi Wan insinuated that Luke would begin training.  Luke blew him off at first, until his Aunt & Uncle were killed.  So it seems the plan all along was to train Luke.  The real hidden twin was leia.  She was the fail safe.

True but thats what I mean by clunky and really a poor job of explaining all this.

You would think if they were hiding luke he would have been given a different name at least, like Owen Lars Jr. and/or not told about his father altogether, I mean they had him since birth so it's not like Luke would be any wiser. If he found out the truth at a much older age (like in ANH) he might be able to understand why the deception.

theres some hole in that story line though,  If Owen and his wife knew why they were hiding/raising Luke as he might have been seen as the galaxy's last hope one day against the empire, training him young would have been imperative,  not the crash course he had to have with Obi Wan on the millennium falcon and on dagobah.  I also would have liked to have seen Leia have a bit of control with the force in TFA. If Luke could learn that quickly, I dont see why after the battle of endor he wasn't like "Hey sis,  let's practice".  

I get the fail safe idea, just seems like they were asleep at the wheel with when they wanted to deploy these could-be Jedi. The empire just kept getting stronger and they remained unlearned

[The Unknown Poster]

Its possible they didnt know Vader was Anakin.  Its possible they believed he died, even believed Obi Wan's lie that Vader killed him.  All we really know is Owen didnt want Luke following in Anakin's footsteps, tried to keep him from leaving.  We also know his Aunt was more open to it and seemed okay with the idea Luke was like his father, which makes me think they were also told the lie that Anakin was a great Jedi who was betrayed and killed by Vader.  Thus, Luke's Aunt understood his desire to go out into the Universe, but Owen saw it as a dangerous path.

I think the fact Obi Wan stayed on Tatooine could indicate that he and Yoda believed Vader *might* come looking for look.  Obi Wan was there to protect him.  And ofcourse, steer him towards Jedi training before Owen stepped in.  Anakin hated Tatooine and vowed to never return. They must have felt he'd not go looking for him there.  And remember, he had no reason to look - he thought Padme and the baby were killed. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Its possible they didnt know Vader was Anakin.  Its possible they believed he died, even believed Obi Wan's lie that Vader killed him.  All we really know is Owen didnt want Luke following in Anakin's footsteps, tried to keep him from leaving.  We also know his Aunt was more open to it and seemed okay with the idea Luke was like his father, which makes me think they were also told the lie that Anakin was a great Jedi who was betrayed and killed by Vader.  Thus, Luke's Aunt understood his desire to go out into the Universe, but Owen saw it as a dangerous path.

I think the fact Obi Wan stayed on Tatooine could indicate that he and Yoda believed Vader *might* come looking for look.  Obi Wan was there to protect him.  And ofcourse, steer him towards Jedi training before Owen stepped in.  Anakin hated Tatooine and vowed to never return. They must have felt he'd not go looking for him there.  And remember, he had no reason to look - he thought Padme and the baby were killed. 

you're likely right about the lie,  Obi wan was still lying to Luke when he was giving him Anakin's lightsaber.  theres certain things tho that never add up for me,  like C3P0 never once babbling that not only he was built on tatooine,  but was built by Anakin Skywalker.  Even if he didnt pick up on Luke's last name,  he was standing right there as Obi Wan was talking about Anakin to Luke.  I did see a comic before though that had Vader kind of have a moment with a dismembered C3P0,  at least they kind of acknowledge the connection

[The Unknown Poster]

C3PO has his memory wiped at the end of Revenge.  Thats why he was blissfully unaware of everything.  R2D2, however, knew everything.  But he seems to have strategically kept his mouth shut.  It makes Obi Wan's line "I dont recall owning any droids" sort of funny if, in retrospect, we accept that while he didnt own the droids, he certainly spent time with them.  Another one of his "true, from a certain point of view" lines.

[tacklewasher]

16 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

C3PO has his memory wiped at the end of Revenge.  Thats why he was blissfully unaware of everything.  R2D2, however, knew everything.  But he seems to have strategically kept his mouth shut.  It makes Obi Wan's line "I dont recall owning any droids" sort of funny if, in retrospect, we accept that while he didnt own the droids, he certainly spent time with them.  Another one of his "true, from a certain point of view" lines.

They have never retconned Obi-Wan not knowing the droids to any level of satisfaction. It's a hole plain and simple.

[The Unknown Poster]

24 minutes ago, tacklewasher said:

They have never retconned Obi-Wan not knowing the droids to any level of satisfaction. It's a hole plain and simple.

I always felt it was a weird line in A New Hope the way the actor delivered it BEFORE the prequels.  So Im content with Obi Wan simply lying and being a bit smart about it.  If I recall Luke tells Ben he's returning his droids and Ben sort of rubs his chin and says "Ohhh, that's odd, I dont recall owning any droids". 

It was odd at the time because a simpler way of doing it would have been just stating that R2 had a message, not that Ben was a previous owner.  And the way the line is delivered really does fall under Ben's "true from a certain point of view" since it IS true he never owned the droids.  But he did know them.

[Taynted_Fayth]

its interesting watching the series over again with all the hindsight available with rogue one and TFA. I was watching the empire strikes back yesterday and when Obi Wan says "that boy is the last hope we have" and yoda counter "no, there is another...skywalker" at the time the obvious conclusion is Leia,  but I was wondering last night,  with their ability to see the future if he could have been referring to Rey, who - if Luke's daughter - is a skywalker as well. It's obvious Leia isn't the saviour and in fact gives birth the Kylo Ren, the current antagonist

[The Unknown Poster]

11 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

its interesting watching the series over again with all the hindsight available with rogue one and TFA. I was watching the empire strikes back yesterday and when Obi Wan says "that boy is the last hope we have" and yoda counter "no, there is another...skywalker" at the time the obvious conclusion is Leia,  but I was wondering last night,  with their ability to see the future if he could have been referring to Rey, who - if Luke's daughter - is a skywalker as well. It's obvious Leia isn't the saviour and in fact gives birth the Kylo Ren, the current antagonist

He actually doesnt say "Skywalker", he just says "no, there is another".  Because when Lucas wrote Empire, he didnt have Luke and Leia as siblings.  originally his plan was for Luke's sister to show up in Return of the Jedi but it would be someone new.  This is why Leia kisses Luke at the end of Empire, because Lucas never envisioned them as related.

The line is a nice bit of foreshadowing but knowing now that its Leia, it raises some issues.  Yoda thought Luke was too old to train.  Leia is the same age.  And ofcourse Ben knows about Leia but its like Yoda is reminding him.  Then again, for whatever reason (gender bias? lol), Ben seems to think Luke is the great hope, not Leia.  Its also possible Yoda referred to Leia in a different sense, that she was a second hope...but maybe not as a Jedi.

There was speculation during Revenge that Padme would touch Luke's face when she said his name and from that we'd take the premise that the force was stronger in Luke through some sort of mystical transference or that the first born would be stronger.  I think Leia was first born though.  And Lucas was too off his rocker to come up with any reason for Luke to seemingly be more powerful than Leia.  Then again, Luke didnt seem powerful until he was trained and Leia was never trained...so who knows how powerful she could be.  Luke refers to her as having the Force in Jedi.

They have to be careful with the new series not to make the original triloigy pointless.  When Jedi ended, we felt that we had seen Luke's journey completed - he had redeemed his father and destroyed the Empire.  If we look at it as not Luke's journey but Anakin's, then he was redeemed and he destroyed the Empire.  But TFA shows us that the Empire essentially continued and so did the Sith (or at least a version of the sith).  Im hoping that whatever the outcome is, its Luke who leads to victory so that his position as the saviour of the Jedi and vanquisher of evil isnt undone.

[Logan007]

Ah, but Anakin was only to bring balance to the force, which he did, by destroying the Sith.  I think the Sith are done with and now a new force of darkness has arisen.  The Knights of Ren.  I also think part of the balance was Luke.  He brought Luke into this world, and he is the balance in the force.  I.e. he will be like a "grey Jedi", much similar to Qui-Gon.  Very unorthodox in certain Jedi ways that were considered important in the past.  Like feeling love, having some passion without it overcoming you, etc...

Edited December 22, 2016 by Logan007

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Anyone see I Am Your Father on Netflix? Crowdfunding film about David Prowse and their attempt to reshoot the death scene from SW6 as well as a look at why he was banned from official SW fan shows.

Edited December 22, 2016 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

24 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Ah, but Anakin was only to bring balance to the force, which he did, by destroying the Sith.  I think the Sith are done with and now a new force of darkness has arisen.  The Knights of Ren.  I also think part of the balance was Luke.  He brought Luke into this world, and he is the balance in the force.  I.e. he will be like a "grey Jedi", much similar to Qui-Gon.  Very unorthodox in certain Jedi ways that were considered important in the past.  Like feeling love, having some passion without it overcoming you, etc...

Some creative theories I've read were that Luke was the savior because he could use both sides of the Force (The balance?).  Anakin gave into the dark.  And the dark side was too powerful.  But Like could tap into both but knew his limits.  In TFA, when Rey is fighting Kylo, she has that moment of zen before she defeats him.  The novelization refers to the dark side speaking to her to kill Kylo, but she resists.  So similar to Luke.

The Balance in the prophecy might not mean equal sith/Jedi or just light side, but the balance between both.  The Jedi got so wrapped up in their rules that they ended up destroying themselves.  Qui-Gon is another example to a degree.

[The Unknown Poster]

20 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Anyone see I Am Your Father on Netflix? Crowdfunding film about David Prowse and their attempt to reshoot the death scene from SW6 as well as a look at why he was banned from official SW fan shows.

Goodness, why?  He wants a scene where where its his face behind the mask...?  *fart*

[kelownabomberfan]

Just saw Rogue One and finally came to read this thread to get some background.  Now I have a headache.  

[The Unknown Poster]

2 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Just saw Rogue One and finally came to read this thread to get some background.  Now I have a headache.  

What did you think of it?

[kelownabomberfan]

11 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What did you think of it?

I was entertained, though found it a bit confusing.  Also not a fan of the repetitive Force mantra the one guy kept saying over and over again.  I was impressed with the CGI on the old guy (and I knew it was CGI not because of spoilers but because I know Peter Cushing died over 30 years ago) though I wasn't impressed with how they didn't get his voice right.  I also wasn't impressed with Darth Vader's voice, in that James Earl Jones sounded a lot older (I get it, he's older) and his baritone voice wasn't as strong.  Just my impression.  

Otherwise, it was pretty entertaining and was a good story.  Saw it once, but I doubt I'll see it again.  Watching Star Wars tonight to see the continuity.  And yeah, I realize it's supposed to be called "A New Hope" or "Episode 4" but to me it will always be "Star Wars".

[kelownabomberfan]

Also wanted to add, that I think once again Star Wars has broken new ground with their effects.  They have basically solved the problem a lot of sequels have with actors dying.  Did the actor die?  Who cares!  We can just CGI them!  The only issue they need to solve is the voice, which should be fixable, using old voice recordings to create new voice dialogue. 

[SpeedFlex27]

I saw the movie, thought it was really well done with the special effects being superb. You knew this was a one off as all the characters were killed off as fans would have wanted them included in the next movie(s) & according to the writers & producers that just wouldn't be a good thing so they had to be eliminated. One thing kept popping up in my mind. Star Wars gets it & Star Trek doesn't.