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Rich

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8 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 We dont know what evidence Mueller had against trump because havent seen it.  Same with the SDNY investigations and Congress.  Have to reserve judgement on Trump until later, to be honest.

The RCMP can't just investigate the Prime Minister without a complaining witness, no?  My point being, in the US, it's Congress' job to check the President and they have standing committees to do just that so the mechanism exists to investigate.

What will trigger an RCMP investigation?  Thats my point.  If you ask me should they investigate, yes, ofcourse they should...someone should.  But how.

The summary of the Mueller report is all we have to base it on as of now, anything else is just speculation. Congress will keep the pressure on Trump but there are a lot of Dems with egg on their face right now, Schiff especially, I don't know how any of these guys can come across looking impartial at this point. 

Scheer has already sent a letter to the RCMP requesting the investigation. 

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1 minute ago, pigseye said:

The summary of the Mueller report is all we have to base it on as of now, anything else is just speculation. Congress will keep the pressure on Trump but there are a lot of Dems with egg on their face right now, Schiff especially, I don't know how any of these guys can come across looking impartial at this point. 

Scheer has already sent a letter to the RCMP requesting the investigation. 

Come on....if I was being investigated for murder and the investigative report was given to my buddy who got the job because he said I couldnt be prosecuted and he said no one can see the report but trust me, Andrew is sort of innocent...would you all think I was actually innocent?

There is no conclusion until the report is actually made available.  

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2 minutes ago, pigseye said:

The summary of the Mueller report is all we have to base it on as of now, anything else is just speculation. Congress will keep the pressure on Trump but there are a lot of Dems with egg on their face right now, Schiff especially, I don't know how any of these guys can come across looking impartial at this point. 

Scheer has already sent a letter to the RCMP requesting the investigation. 

Great.  If the RCMP deems there is probable cause to investigate, I hope they do.  And I DO hope they do.  If JT is cool on this, he has nothing to worry about.

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Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

Come on....if I was being investigated for murder and the investigative report was given to my buddy who got the job because he said I couldnt be prosecuted and he said no one can see the report but trust me, Andrew is sort of innocent...would you all think I was actually innocent?

There is no conclusion until the report is actually made available.  

Of course, we could look at what Trump has admitted to, what his attorney has admitted to and all the indictments and convictions. 

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2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

No no.   You're conflating.

Being a terrorist is an act, not just an ideological.  Being a racist can be both.  I dont think the Liberals are pro-terrorism.  In fact, I think thats absurd.  But Trump and his inner circle are clearly pro-racist.  Its a whole movement and to avoid the obvious stigma of being racist they call it White Nationalism.

Im saying, someone can be a Trump supporter because they are ignorant or shallow or a racist.  When I see people specifically demonstrate their general intelligence and knowledge of the racist rhetoric and policies AND carry the water by attacking a person of colour in an irrational way, its pretty easy to draw a conclusion.  Maybe if we really examined the deep feelings that lay in the heart of the person, we'd come up with a nuance explanation, but really, why should we have to...dont come across like a racist if you dont want people thinking you're racist.  (again, not saying you specifically).

The President is a white supremacist.  Thats a red line.  For me and should be for everyone.  For those where its not a red line, they need to examine their own beliefs...but they surely cant be mad when they are judged harshly.  

Liberals supporting terrorism just isnt true and is a red herring.  And in the long list of reasons to dislike JT, that's a silly one to grasp at...way too far down the list.

The white nationalists have always been there, voting for presidents in the past, it wasn't until Hilary shone a light on them "basket of deplorables" did Trump seize on their support. There is absolutely no evidence that Trump the businessman had anything to do with white nationalists, in fact, he was a supporter of the DNC before entering politics. He accepted them and their votes, he's the worst kind of politician, soulless. 

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And something else to consider, was Barr not the attorney general who kept the republicans all safe from any fall out from Iran-Contra? 

Seems to me that you can't take anything done by Republicans seriously. They've been rotten to the core for quite a while and will protect their own no matter what. 

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4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

 

Seems to me that you can't take anything done by Republicans seriously. They've been rotten to the core for quite a while and will protect their own no matter what. 

and if you think that the Democrats are any different please come to Kelowna to check out a bridge I want to sell you.  It's nice, SNC Lavalin built it.

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11 minutes ago, pigseye said:

The white nationalists have always been there, voting for presidents in the past, it wasn't until Hilary shone a light on them "basket of deplorables" did Trump seize on their support. There is absolutely no evidence that Trump the businessman had anything to do with white nationalists, in fact, he was a supporter of the DNC before entering politics. He accepted them and their votes, he's the worst kind of politician, soulless. 

Actually there is evidence Trump the businessman was racist.  he had issues with his apartment buildings.

And thats my point, if racists vote for Trump, thats not Trumps fault, same as if they vote for Bush or Clinton.  But unlike Bush and Clinton, Trump courts them, supports them, defends them.

Its no wonder racist attacks are way up.  Just on its surface we can see those deplorables are emboldened.    Just because someone doesnt like Hilary doesnt mean they SHOULD embrace racists.

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5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Actually there is evidence Trump the businessman was racist.  he had issues with his apartment buildings.

And thats my point, if racists vote for Trump, thats not Trumps fault, same as if they vote for Bush or Clinton.  But unlike Bush and Clinton, Trump courts them, supports them, defends them.

Its no wonder racist attacks are way up.  Just on its surface we can see those deplorables are emboldened.    Just because someone doesnt like Hilary doesnt mean they SHOULD embrace racists.

You've made up your mind and I am not going to try to change it.

I get it, Trump represents everything that we hate about politicians, with him it's just about the votes, he doesn't care who he gets them from.

Your generation wants to change that, only decent people deserve to vote, racists should not have a voice and should be shunned by society, imprisoned etc. I assume you feel the same way about any group that promotes hate based on race, religion etc.

Censorship is a slippery slope though, be careful what you wish for. 

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1 minute ago, pigseye said:

You've made up your mind and I am not going to try to change it.

I get it, Trump represents everything that we hate about politicians, with him it's just about the votes, he doesn't care who he gets them from.

Your generation wants to change that, only decent people deserve to vote, racists should not have a voice and should be shunned by society, imprisoned etc. I assume you feel the same way about any group that promotes hate based on race, religion etc.

Censorship is a slippery slope though, be careful what you wish for. 

Not really.  Firstly, Im not sure how old you are but Im old enough that "your generation" isnt usually applied to me.  But it sounds young so Ill take it.

Using censorship as a way to defend gross opinions is the tool of the gross.  We already have hate speech laws so no, its not a slippery slope.  Society has utilized common sense to decide that racism is not open to interpretation.  And its not just about who Trump courts (though why that isnt enough for you if you arent a racist, I dont know).  Its his actions.  Its not like he's accepting votes from racists and then being totally non racist.  They like him for a reason.  Let's be honest about that.

You can't nuance racism.  Sorry.

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Couple o' things:

So far, only Barr (Trump's hand picked AG) has actually seen the report.   What we have is strictly his opinion, after reading it.   As far as "collusion", I posted a number of times about how difficult that non-legal term (the real term is conspiracy) is to prove in a court of law.  Mueller also is considered an ole time, by the book prosecutor....who would also follow the long time, unwritten code that the DOJ cannot indict a sitting President.

As far as obstruction, without seeing the report, hard to tell what information is in there about it, what the overall context is, or what has been possibly passed along (like the Flynn, Cohen, Manifort cases) to State jurisdictions.

One indicator will be the willingness of the Trump administration to release the report - after all, if it completely exonerates Trump, you would think they would be fast-tracking it.   If they attempt to foot drag, the question would be why?
Another indicator would be if Barr is allowed to appear in a projected Congressional hearing.   If not, why not? He should be able to answer questions about the evidence, he has already seen.

While Trump and friends are racing around on the ole victory lap.....they might want to remember that as far as actual legal threats......the District of Columbia, Virginia, and especially the SDNY, are still working cases.  Of those, the Cohen case (campaign finance violations) has some traction, based on evidence provided so far.    The ultimate threat is stil the money trail.  More than a few hints of fraudulent behaviour in Trumps' past business activities, in New York State, especially on the tax/insurance front.  

SDNY is also currently investigating the Russian money-laundering Deutsche Bank AG....who over a 40 year period.... loaned Trump an estimated 2 Billion dollars, despite both his widely perceived credit risk, and his overstating of assets, on a number of occasions.   In the end I think this will end up being the most interesting back story. 

 

 

 

Edited by do or die

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There were certainly clues the report wasnt great for Trump.  For one, Meuller never leaks.  Yet Rudy G knew the report was coming.  Its possible someone else in Mueller's office leaked it but its more likely it came from the DoJ, specifically the AG's office.  Regardless, everyone said something big was happening this past week due to Trumps total and complete twitter meltdown.

Then when the report is handed in, he goes totally silent.  He was scared to death.  Even though Rudy was already, before the report was handed in, telling everyone it was an exoneration.  Trump was scared.  Only after Barr submitted his summary did Trump do a victory lap.  Because he didnt realize Barr and Mueller were friends...he was caught off guard by that.  So he didnt know, until the very end, if Barr would protect him.

Quite frankly it boils down to this: there is no result until the report is actually seen.  

@do or die post above is excellent.

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Mueller's biggest failure was not getting to ask Trump question's face to face, as for AG Barr his interpretation of the report might be considered over reach. He was supposed to give a report not make a judgement.

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13 minutes ago, bustamente said:

Mueller's biggest failure was not getting to ask Trump question's face to face, as for AG Barr his interpretation of the report might be considered over reach. He was supposed to give a report not make a judgement.

Apparently he talked to the DoJ about issuing a subpoena for Trump.  Thats one big question Congress will have for him.  Why didnt he?  Very curious to know...

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2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Apparently he talked to the DoJ about issuing a subpoena for Trump.  Thats one big question Congress will have for him.  Why didnt he?  Very curious to know...

Also why did he not come to a conclusion and left it up to Barr to interpret,  by the way Barr knew 3 weeks ago that Mueller would not come up with a conclusion.

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Just now, bustamente said:

Also why did he not come to a conclusion and left it up to Barr to interpret,  by the way Barr knew 3 weeks ago that Mueller would not come up with a conclusion.

I read some speculation Mueller intended his report to be used by Congress and might have made it harder for Trump's AG to hide it in this way.  If he had come to the conclusion that Trump obstructed justice, he still couldnt indict, but that might have cause the AG to hide the report.  Barr could have played word games and said "on the basis of the report, the DoJ does not intend to file any charges for obstruction" and people would think the report exonerates him.   I dont know if it would make it easier for the White House to claim executive privilage but it would sure make them want to.

If Mueller really did come to no conclusion, he might have decided his report spoke for itself and didnt want to give the AG or White House excuses to hide it.  He might have effectively laid out the evidence for Congress (or a future AG) to decide on charges.

But these are great questions.  I guess we could ask Barr...but why not ask Mueller, in Congress, under oath, on camera.

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9 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I read some speculation Mueller intended his report to be used by Congress and might have made it harder for Trump's AG to hide it in this way.  If he had come to the conclusion that Trump obstructed justice, he still couldnt indict, but that might have cause the AG to hide the report.  Barr could have played word games and said "on the basis of the report, the DoJ does not intend to file any charges for obstruction" and people would think the report exonerates him.   I dont know if it would make it easier for the White House to claim executive privilage but it would sure make them want to.

If Mueller really did come to no conclusion, he might have decided his report spoke for itself and didnt want to give the AG or White House excuses to hide it.  He might have effectively laid out the evidence for Congress (or a future AG) to decide on charges.

But these are great questions.  I guess we could ask Barr...but why not ask Mueller, in Congress, under oath, on camera.

This is definitely going to happen, going to be must see tv.

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Do or die is right about Barr.....

Quote

 

Then-Attorney General Barr supported the president's decision in the Iran-Contra case, which gave clemency to people who had been officials in the administration of President Ronald Reagan, including former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger. He had been set to go on trial to face charges about lying to Congress.

To the man who led the Iran-Contra investigation, however, the pardons represented a miscarriage of justice.

"It demonstrates that powerful people with powerful allies can commit serious crimes in high office, deliberately abusing the public trust without consequences," said Lawrence Walsh, the independent prosecutor in the case, at the time of the pardons.

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/684553791/william-barr-supported-pardons-in-an-earlier-d-c-witch-hunt-iran-contra

Saint Ronald Reagan:

Quote

"A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not."

whatever the **** that means. 

Edited by Mark F

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4 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Do or die is right about Barr.....

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/684553791/william-barr-supported-pardons-in-an-earlier-d-c-witch-hunt-iran-contra

Saint Ronald Reagan:

whatever the **** that means. 

Boy did Reagan get away with that one....and he's the GOP's poster child.

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3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

will protect their own no matter what

If you're a republican, you can wear a diaper, screw a hooker down in Brazil,  while supposedly happily married, and you're still  good. Just need to say a few prayers.

The only thing that they can't tolerate, is being gay.

that'll get you kicked right out. Like the "wide stance in the washroom cubicle guy" ..... he's gone.

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24 minutes ago, Mark F said:

If you're a republican, you can wear a diaper, screw a hooker down in Brazil,  while supposedly happily married, and you're still  good. Just need to say a few prayers.

The only thing that they can't tolerate, is being gay.

that'll get you kicked right out. Like the "wide stance in the washroom cubicle guy" ..... he's gone.

You can get help if you're gay. Prayers help, I hear. 

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