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" do you mean Assad and Saddam were cool?

Please quote the line where I said Assad or Sadaam were cool.

You can't because I didn't.

Don't twist things people say, or worse, imply they're saying things they didn't say at all.

You seem to like this section.... how about playing by the new rules?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mark F

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On 2016-11-19 at 3:20 PM, Mark F said:

Russia/Putin is not a threat to anyone in Europe, or North America. I mean no threat whatsoever. Crimea is almost one hundred percent Russian, was part of Soviet Union till early fifties when Khruschev "gave" it to the Ukraine.

 

I don't think the leaders/populations of the Baltic countries and Poland feel as safe as you do. The annexation of Crimea had to be pretty worrisome for countries with large Russian minorities.

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1 hour ago, Mark F said:

Please quote the line where I said Assad or Sadaam were cool.

You can't because I didn't.

Don't twist things people say, or worse, imply they're saying things they didn't say at all.

You seem to like this section.... how about playing by the new rules?

 

 

 

 

You made a snarky, sarcastic response to a relevant point.  So you got one in response which was half serious actually.  You can figure it out.   I was fine with the last thread minus the silly memes that had no point.  But if you prefer serious discussion, by all means, set an example

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4 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

I don't think the leaders/populations of the Baltic countries and Poland feel as safe as you do. The annexation of Crimea had to be pretty worrisome for countries with large Russian minorities.

They had a referendum in Crimea,they wanted to rejoin Russia.

 

"GfK, a German pollster, and the 4th largest market research organization in the world, conducted a survey in the Crimean region by telephone from Ukraine between January 16 and 22, 2015, and published their results on Feb. 4, 2015.[41] The survey's intention was to probe the satisfaction of Crimean residents in their decision to reunify with Russia, rather than re-identify with Ukraine. The survey found that 82% of Crimeans "fully endorse" Crimea's secession from Ukraine and joining the Russian federation, and that 11% of Crimeans "mostly endorse" Crimea's secession from Ukraine and joining the Russian federation, while just 7% "disapprove" of Crimea's secession from Ukraine and joining the Russian federation. In the USA, the results of the GfK survey were reported by Bloomberg."

and so on. The Russians don't think they annexed Crimea. Neither do The people in Crimea apparently.

Don't know much at all about Poland and the Baltics.

 

Edited by Mark F

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On 18/11/2016 at 10:37 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

Does anyone really know if NAFTA & these other international trade deals have made our lives better or worse? I just see jobs going to Mexico or China & the Phiullipines. Meanwhile you can't ship beer from one province to another among other things. I wish we'd take care of our own country first before trying to be wunderkinds on the world stage all the time & have everybody like us.

One simplistic way to look at it... you like being able to afford a flat screen tv, a smartphone, a good car for under 25 grand, and doing all your shopping at Walmart on the cheap? If your answer is yes then yay international trade agreements.

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On 19/11/2016 at 3:20 PM, Mark F said:

Did I say I admire Putin? Or that i think he has done anything worthwhile? Don't think so.

I said he's no threat to us.

The European and American war mongers are trying to go back to the cold war, cause they  make a lot of money off of war, building and selling weapons systems (one cruise missile costs one million dollars)

hence they have to find a  Russian to demonize. It's Putin.

Russia/Putin is not a threat to anyone in Europe, or North America. I mean no threat whatsoever. If you want to ask the people in Syria who is killing them, there is a wide assortment of people and countries to choose from. Russia is one, so is USA, so is Saudi Arabia. Crimea is almost one hundred percent Russian, was part of Soviet Union till early fifties when Khruschev "gave" it to the Ukraine.

Ukraine is not doing so well these days either. 

I don't buy the propaganda  that we're fed... that when we bomb it's good, and when someone else bombs it's evil.

 

The Russians are testing the boundaries of our Arctic territories. Have been for years. This will probably lead to a dispute in the near future. And I'm guessing we aren't going to get much backing from a Trump led U.S. 

It's not Ukraine or Syria level threats but I'd say Putin is someone we need to watch closely, for our own selfish reasons let alone how he affects the rest of the world.

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14 hours ago, Brandon Blue&Gold said:

One simplistic way to look at it... you like being able to afford a flat screen tv, a smartphone, a good car for under 25 grand, and doing all your shopping at Walmart on the cheap? If your answer is yes then yay international trade agreements.

Maybe you should add that the lonnie's value to the American Dollar which has been under par mostly since the deal was signed. 

Edited by SpeedFlex27

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1 hour ago, Brandon Blue&Gold said:

Which is good for our manufacturing and exports sectors.

You mean Southern Ontario. Or Bombarier in Montreal. Where all the votes are. It doesn't help anyone else. Everything costs more. At the same time bring in policies to kill the oil industry out west with all the jobs that go with it as the Liberals don't need the west to gain power. Typically Canadian, instead of becoming competitive on the world stage the maufacturing sector relies on government subsidies or policies like a low dollar to keep them competitive when they can't do it on their own. Manufacturing is shrinking anyway as companies become more global like the auto industry. Jobs are leaving for Asia & Mexico. 

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16 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You mean Southern Ontario. Or Bombarier in Montreal. Where all the votes are. It doesn't help anyone else. Everything costs more. At the same time bring in policies to kill the oil industry out west with all the jobs that go with it as the Liberals don't need the west to gain power. Typically Canadian, instead of becoming competitive on the world stage the maufacturing sector relies on government subsidies or policies like a low dollar to keep them competitive when they can't do it on their own. Manufacturing is shrinking anyway as companies become more global like the auto industry. Jobs are leaving for Asia & Mexico. 

NAFTA hurts normal citizens and only benefits the very large corporations who save on labour costs. 

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59 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

 

If someone wants to enforce immigration laws.... they get called a racist.

If they aren't enforced, what are they for?

If you don't like the existing immigration laws, go into politics and work to change them.

The solution to stopping Mexicans and other nationals from going to the states illegally is for us to demand that their leaders do something to improve conditions in those places. Mexico is a hell hole. fix it. People will stop leaving.

good book about the white poor in the USA who have been ignored and brushed aside. lots of history up to today.

http://www.nancyisenberg.com/white-trash

"White Trash" by Nancy Isenberg

“A magisterial study of the unjustly neglected poor whites who have helped to compose the American identity in crucial fashion…breathtaking social history and dazzling cultural analysis at its best.”

Edited by Mark F

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On 22/11/2016 at 6:36 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

You mean Southern Ontario. Or Bombarier in Montreal. Where all the votes are. It doesn't help anyone else. Everything costs more. At the same time bring in policies to kill the oil industry out west with all the jobs that go with it as the Liberals don't need the west to gain power. Typically Canadian, instead of becoming competitive on the world stage the maufacturing sector relies on government subsidies or policies like a low dollar to keep them competitive when they can't do it on their own. Manufacturing is shrinking anyway as companies become more global like the auto industry. Jobs are leaving for Asia & Mexico. 

Yes where all the votes are, and coincidentally most of the population of Canada. So it benefits (or used to depending on your pov) a lot of people.  Globalization is reality these days. Like I pointed out it allows us cheaper cars and TVs. Does it cost us manufacturing jobs, yes it does no denying that. But many experts agree NAFTA has been a benefit to Canada. I can't argue your point on oil because you're right, we are being very shortsighted on how we're handling that part of our economy. 

In the end what would you prefer? Free trade and international trade agreements with cheaper goods and more choice, or tariffs and protectionism with higher costs but possibly more manufacturing jobs? Tough choice. Of course if we went the latter route we'd probably have a tough time exporting since other countries would throw tariffs right back at us. Globalization is the reality. I don't think we could escape it even if we tried. Be interesting to see if Trump can. I really doubt it. 

The reality it we're a huge country short on population and big on natural resources. Our manufacturing base  is never going to be very impressive even at the best of times.

 

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13 hours ago, Mark F said:

standard position in some circles.

Maybe but that's not a standard, common sense opinion.  So when it gets used as a weapon against people it defeats the initial argument.

Deporting illegal immigrants who have committed crimes is, I think, widely accepted.  The issue is illegals who have been in the US for many many years, have been contributing to society and in many cases, have American-born children.  That's not a black & white issue.  And Trump wont round up all of them and deport them either.  He just wont.

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If you look around at left web sites and blogs, and opinion forums, you will find that deporting illegal undocumented immigrants is called racist.

"Deporting illegal immigrants who have committed crimes is, I think, widely accepted."

not sure what you mean or what you're relying on in saying that.

If you want to check what I'm saying, you can listen to Democracy archives now on this subject. I don't know what opinion polls show.

The flip side is that business likes having them, cause they depress wages, being willing to work very cheaply under terrible conditions. See.... tomato harvest in Florida.

 

Obama has deported more illegals than any other President. The great Liberal.

Edited by Mark F

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7 minutes ago, Mark F said:

If you look around at left web sites and blogs, and opinion forums, you will find that deporting illegal undocumented immigrants is called racist.

I don't know what opinion polls says. I know what I have read and heard.

If you want to check what I'm saying, you can listen to Democracy archives now on this subject.

The flip side is that business likes having them, cause they depress wages, being willing to work very cheaply under terrible conditions. See.... tomato harvest in Florida.

That's sort of my point though.  The hyperbole works both ways.  I see that and I think sure, left wing liberal nuts call it racist.  Then I see others saying 'oh we're racist I guess, cant even have an adult conversation about this issue' and to me it undermines the conversation on both sides.  Both sides point to the goofballs and say "see thats the alternative" when usually everyone knows the goofballs arent representative of the general public.

There is a lot of racism in the US and this election has shown it, unfortunately.  But both Clinton and Trump wanted immigration reform....

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